I didn't want to write this in the Main section of the Board, because I know the last time Guy ended up locking the Covid thread..
But I noticed on the IC Gaels site that Hynes is requiring all fans to show proof of vaccination for all fans over 12 (which I am fine with) AND that all fans attending need to wear masks while in attendance (which I am not fine with).
I get the whole Vaccinated people can contract and spread, but to me this is not following what other venues and NYC require. Why are we so concerned about the unlikely chance of a breakthrough case or spreading the virus to someone who has chosen not to get vaccinated ? (and I get there's a tiny % of people who cannot get vaccinated but we can't all be inconvenienced because of this).
For an ENTIRELY vaccinated crowd masks can be recommended, but should not IMO be required.
Some might say wearing a mask is not a big deal, and I will say I agree in SOME instances, but not this.
If you are worried about your child under 12, don't bring them this year. It's as simple as that. Eventually they will have a chance to get the vaccine in the near future when it's approved for all ages.
Only the vaccinated for the most part seem to "follow" the rules. If someone has chosen to not be protected, WHY are we trying to protect them??
This won't deter me from attending, but it does make me shake my head (a lot).
At the bon voyage event, I did see a few fans ditch their masks once seated. I suspect a certain percentage will do this at games as well, and honestly as long as it's not like half the attendees I doubt it will be vigorously policed, especially if proof of vax is indeed required.
The greatest poster in the history of the MAAC as determined by THREE separate polls.
Not very scientific... why should folks who already have Covid be forced to get the shot. Previously infected people are significantly less likely than vaccinated people to contract the delta variant of the virus. One study run by the Maccabi Healthcare Service looked at individuals who had either gotten two shots of the vaccine by the end of February or tested positive for COVID-19 by that time. It compared 46,035 Maccabi members who caught the coronavirus at some point during the pandemic and the same number of double-vaccinated people, so it is not a tiny study... in fact, it is the largest study of its type in the world.
What they discovered:
* People who had two vaccine shots had a six-fold higher chance of getting infected with Delta than patients who hadn’t been vaccinated but previously contracted the coronavirus, according to the research. There were 748 cases of SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections, 640 of which were in the vaccinated group and 108 in the previously infected group, which was relying on natural immunity alone.
* The vaccine-dependent people had a seven-fold higher chance of symptomatic infection, and a 6.7-fold higher chance of being hospitalized.
* In addition, a sample of 16,215 who were infected during Israel’s third wave in January-February 2021 was compared to an equal number of people vaccinated during that period. The contrast for these two groups was even starker: It showed that Delta had a 27-fold higher chance of breaking through vaccine protection from January and February and causing symptoms than breaking through natural immunity acquired in the same period and causing symptoms.
Also the unvaccinated, the vaccinated, and those who previously had Covid are no more contagious than the other. In one English study, CBS News reported that “With delta, infections occurring following two vaccinations had similar peak viral burden to those in unvaccinated individuals,” So, fully vaccinated people are as contagious with the coronavirus as unvaccinated people.
Some basic thoughts for those who claim to believe in science"
* Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. - FROM THE CDC * Both flu viruses and the virus that causes COVID-19 can be spread to others by people before they begin showing symptoms; by people with very mild symptoms; and by people who never experience symptoms (asymptomatic people). - FROM THE CDC
So why would the College turn away people who were previously infected and have natural antibodies protecting them?
Just go back to last year, and last minute game cancellations. It was depressing. If the first few games come off w/o the team getting Covid or an outbreak among the student population, I can see the rules being lessened (??). This should be a special year and I hope that fans don't let the virus spoil it. Will I think that all the other fans are vaccinated, not on your life. I remember when I was 17 and going into a bar with someone else's Draft card, and I've read that there are phony Vax cards in circulation. And, I've been told that I look good in a mask.
Not very scientific... why should folks who already have Covid be forced to get the shot. Previously infected people are significantly less likely than vaccinated people to contract the delta variant of the virus. One study run by the Maccabi Healthcare Service looked at individuals who had either gotten two shots of the vaccine by the end of February or tested positive for COVID-19 by that time. It compared 46,035 Maccabi members who caught the coronavirus at some point during the pandemic and the same number of double-vaccinated people, so it is not a tiny study... in fact, it is the largest study of its type in the world.
What they discovered:
* People who had two vaccine shots had a six-fold higher chance of getting infected with Delta than patients who hadn’t been vaccinated but previously contracted the coronavirus, according to the research. There were 748 cases of SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections, 640 of which were in the vaccinated group and 108 in the previously infected group, which was relying on natural immunity alone.
* The vaccine-dependent people had a seven-fold higher chance of symptomatic infection, and a 6.7-fold higher chance of being hospitalized.
* In addition, a sample of 16,215 who were infected during Israel’s third wave in January-February 2021 was compared to an equal number of people vaccinated during that period. The contrast for these two groups was even starker: It showed that Delta had a 27-fold higher chance of breaking through vaccine protection from January and February and causing symptoms than breaking through natural immunity acquired in the same period and causing symptoms.
Also the unvaccinated, the vaccinated, and those who previously had Covid are no more contagious than the other. In one English study, CBS News reported that “With delta, infections occurring following two vaccinations had similar peak viral burden to those in unvaccinated individuals,” So, fully vaccinated people are as contagious with the coronavirus as unvaccinated people.
Some basic thoughts for those who claim to believe in science"
* Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. - FROM THE CDC * Both flu viruses and the virus that causes COVID-19 can be spread to others by people before they begin showing symptoms; by people with very mild symptoms; and by people who never experience symptoms (asymptomatic people). - FROM THE CDC
So why would the College turn away people who were previously infected and have natural antibodies protecting them?
In the time it took you to post this, you could have gotten the vax LOL
The greatest poster in the history of the MAAC as determined by THREE separate polls.
Not very scientific... why should folks who already have Covid be forced to get the shot. Previously infected people are significantly less likely than vaccinated people to contract the delta variant of the virus. One study run by the Maccabi Healthcare Service looked at individuals who had either gotten two shots of the vaccine by the end of February or tested positive for COVID-19 by that time. It compared 46,035 Maccabi members who caught the coronavirus at some point during the pandemic and the same number of double-vaccinated people, so it is not a tiny study... in fact, it is the largest study of its type in the world.
What they discovered:
* People who had two vaccine shots had a six-fold higher chance of getting infected with Delta than patients who hadn’t been vaccinated but previously contracted the coronavirus, according to the research. There were 748 cases of SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections, 640 of which were in the vaccinated group and 108 in the previously infected group, which was relying on natural immunity alone.
* The vaccine-dependent people had a seven-fold higher chance of symptomatic infection, and a 6.7-fold higher chance of being hospitalized.
* In addition, a sample of 16,215 who were infected during Israel’s third wave in January-February 2021 was compared to an equal number of people vaccinated during that period. The contrast for these two groups was even starker: It showed that Delta had a 27-fold higher chance of breaking through vaccine protection from January and February and causing symptoms than breaking through natural immunity acquired in the same period and causing symptoms.
Also the unvaccinated, the vaccinated, and those who previously had Covid are no more contagious than the other. In one English study, CBS News reported that “With delta, infections occurring following two vaccinations had similar peak viral burden to those in unvaccinated individuals,” So, fully vaccinated people are as contagious with the coronavirus as unvaccinated people.
Some basic thoughts for those who claim to believe in science"
* Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. - FROM THE CDC * Both flu viruses and the virus that causes COVID-19 can be spread to others by people before they begin showing symptoms; by people with very mild symptoms; and by people who never experience symptoms (asymptomatic people). - FROM THE CDC
So why would the College turn away people who were previously infected and have natural antibodies protecting them?
The biggest concern with citing the Israeli study is that it leaves the impression that it’s safer to get COVID-19 and hope to recover than to try to avoid it by getting vaccinated. That’s not the case, experts say.
The study The study is what is known as a preprint, meaning it has not yet been vetted by experts. It was posted Aug. 25 on medRxiv.com, which added this note: "This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice."
The study was led by researchers at the Maccabi Research & Innovation Center at Maccabi Healthcare Services in Tel Aviv. They reviewed the records of patients in the Maccabi health system — 674,000 patients who were fully vaccinated and 105,000 who had been infected. Among the 105,000 who had been infected, 63,000 were unvaccinated and 42,000 had received one Pfizer dose three months after recovery.
The researchers said the study is "the largest real-world observational study comparing natural immunity" gained from infection by the coronavirus, with immunity provided by the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. They looked at patient records from June through August 2021, when the delta variant was dominant in Israel.
They found:
• People who received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine in January or February 2021 were 13 times more likely to get a breakthrough infection with the delta variant than unvaccinated people who had COVID-19 during the same period were to be reinfected.
• Over a longer period of time — with infection occurring anytime from March 2020 to February 2021, when different variants were dominant in Israel — fully vaccinated people in the study were six times more likely to become infected and seven times more likely to experience "symptomatic disease" than unvaccinated people in the study.
• The study "demonstrated that natural immunity affords longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization due to the delta variant," compared with the Pfizer two-dose vaccine-induced immunity, although previously infected people gained additional protection with a single dose of the vaccine.
Caution in interpreting the findings The study has been well received by some experts as an indicator of the strength of natural immunity. But it has limitations, including the fact that it was done through record reviews, which are limited by biases in health care seeking behavior — such as testing, mask wearing and social distancing — that may differ among the groups compared, Dr. Matthew Laurens of the University of Maryland’s Center for Vaccine Development and Global Health told PolitiFact.
"This type of study design is not as robust as a prospective study that follows individuals forward in time, testing them at regular intervals and collecting data on symptoms systematically," he said. "Prospective studies should be done to determine if these findings can be replicated.
Gauging immunity by comparing COVID-19 reinfection rates among the unvaccinated with breakthrough infections among the vaccinated ignores the dangers of contracting COVID-19 in the first place and the protections against severe illness that vaccines provide.
So 86 - This "Study" is NOT science. You and people like you continue to peruse the internet trying to find evidence that backs up your cock-eyed opinion. Here's the biggest piece of "science" for you. People started getting the vaccine and cases, hospitalizations and deaths plummeted. A vast majority of those flooding the hospitals today are un-vaccinated. It's completely unbelievable to me that this is still a debate.
Just a reminder. The ruling by the Athletic Department is for Fall sports. We still have to wait on the one for Winter sports, which includes BB. And I would think that might include MAAC guidelines.
Not very scientific... why should folks who already have Covid be forced to get the shot. Previously infected people are significantly less likely than vaccinated people to contract the delta variant of the virus. One study run by the Maccabi Healthcare Service looked at individuals who had either gotten two shots of the vaccine by the end of February or tested positive for COVID-19 by that time. It compared 46,035 Maccabi members who caught the coronavirus at some point during the pandemic and the same number of double-vaccinated people, so it is not a tiny study... in fact, it is the largest study of its type in the world.
What they discovered:
* People who had two vaccine shots had a six-fold higher chance of getting infected with Delta than patients who hadn’t been vaccinated but previously contracted the coronavirus, according to the research. There were 748 cases of SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections, 640 of which were in the vaccinated group and 108 in the previously infected group, which was relying on natural immunity alone.
* The vaccine-dependent people had a seven-fold higher chance of symptomatic infection, and a 6.7-fold higher chance of being hospitalized.
* In addition, a sample of 16,215 who were infected during Israel’s third wave in January-February 2021 was compared to an equal number of people vaccinated during that period. The contrast for these two groups was even starker: It showed that Delta had a 27-fold higher chance of breaking through vaccine protection from January and February and causing symptoms than breaking through natural immunity acquired in the same period and causing symptoms.
Also the unvaccinated, the vaccinated, and those who previously had Covid are no more contagious than the other. In one English study, CBS News reported that “With delta, infections occurring following two vaccinations had similar peak viral burden to those in unvaccinated individuals,” So, fully vaccinated people are as contagious with the coronavirus as unvaccinated people.
Some basic thoughts for those who claim to believe in science"
* Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. - FROM THE CDC * Both flu viruses and the virus that causes COVID-19 can be spread to others by people before they begin showing symptoms; by people with very mild symptoms; and by people who never experience symptoms (asymptomatic people). - FROM THE CDC
So why would the College turn away people who were previously infected and have natural antibodies protecting them?
In the time it took you to post this, you could have gotten the vax LOL
I waited a couple of days before responding because I tend to be a private person who doesn't welcome at best unsympathetic and at worst uneducated responses to my observations. I know far less about COVID-19 and the facts about it that have been stated above. I am purely looking at from a selfish, and admittedly non-objective perspective. I am an organ transplant patient, like 3 other Iona fans and Goal Club members I have met at pre-game events. Because of medication transplant patients take, I am immune compromised, which has resulted in the vaccine not giving me antibodies to the virus. What I am hearing this on the board is tough luck, don't come to games this year because wearing a mask is inconvenient. To quote broguy99: "It's as simple as that."
I suspect some of the older alums like myself, have a different take on this issue because we are faced with medical issues others are not aware of or don't care about. I also know there people of all ages who are in similar situations. I am not expecting Iona to make rules to satisfy a small minority of people such a myself. Would I would like to see is a modicum of consideration from others. Would you so casually say to your spouse, parent, child or grandchild: you can't go to any games this year because some people think it is too big a burden to get vaccinated and wear a mask.
I hope to be able to attend a few games this year but only time will tell. I wish all of you, even those who disagree, a safe and healthy academic year.
I waited a couple of days before responding because I tend to be a private person who doesn't welcome at best unsympathetic and at worst uneducated responses to my observations. I know far less about COVID-19 and the facts about it that have been stated above. I am purely looking at from a selfish, and admittedly non-objective perspective. I am an organ transplant patient, like 3 other Iona fans and Goal Club members I have met at pre-game events. Because of medication transplant patients take, I am immune compromised, which has resulted in the vaccine not giving me antibodies to the virus. What I am hearing this on the board is tough luck, don't come to games this year because wearing a mask is inconvenient. To quote broguy99: "It's as simple as that."
I suspect some of the older alums like myself, have a different take on this issue because we are faced with medical issues others are not aware of or don't care about. I also know there people of all ages who are in similar situations. I am not expecting Iona to make rules to satisfy a small minority of people such a myself. Would I would like to see is a modicum of consideration from others. Would you so casually say to your spouse, parent, child or grandchild: you can't go to any games this year because some people think it is too big a burden to get vaccinated and wear a mask.
I hope to be able to attend a few games this year but only time will tell. I wish all of you, even those who disagree, a safe and healthy academic year.
Go Gaels!
Tom McNamara '72
Home run post. Please post more often!
The greatest poster in the history of the MAAC as determined by THREE separate polls.
I waited a couple of days before responding because I tend to be a private person who doesn't welcome at best unsympathetic and at worst uneducated responses to my observations. I know far less about COVID-19 and the facts about it that have been stated above. I am purely looking at from a selfish, and admittedly non-objective perspective. I am an organ transplant patient, like 3 other Iona fans and Goal Club members I have met at pre-game events. Because of medication transplant patients take, I am immune compromised, which has resulted in the vaccine not giving me antibodies to the virus. What I am hearing this on the board is tough luck, don't come to games this year because wearing a mask is inconvenient. To quote broguy99: "It's as simple as that."
I suspect some of the older alums like myself, have a different take on this issue because we are faced with medical issues others are not aware of or don't care about. I also know there people of all ages who are in similar situations. I am not expecting Iona to make rules to satisfy a small minority of people such a myself. Would I would like to see is a modicum of consideration from others. Would you so casually say to your spouse, parent, child or grandchild: you can't go to any games this year because some people think it is too big a burden to get vaccinated and wear a mask.
I hope to be able to attend a few games this year but only time will tell. I wish all of you, even those who disagree, a safe and healthy academic year.
Tom, I have a nephew by the same name, and he's about class of '80. I'm going to put you both in touch with Greg, and see if you can form a Goal Club band. I'm sure Greg will think up a name for it. Welcome to the land of the lost.
I waited a couple of days before responding because I tend to be a private person who doesn't welcome at best unsympathetic and at worst uneducated responses to my observations. I know far less about COVID-19 and the facts about it that have been stated above. I am purely looking at from a selfish, and admittedly non-objective perspective. I am an organ transplant patient, like 3 other Iona fans and Goal Club members I have met at pre-game events. Because of medication transplant patients take, I am immune compromised, which has resulted in the vaccine not giving me antibodies to the virus. What I am hearing this on the board is tough luck, don't come to games this year because wearing a mask is inconvenient. To quote broguy99: "It's as simple as that."
I suspect some of the older alums like myself, have a different take on this issue because we are faced with medical issues others are not aware of or don't care about. I also know there people of all ages who are in similar situations. I am not expecting Iona to make rules to satisfy a small minority of people such a myself. Would I would like to see is a modicum of consideration from others. Would you so casually say to your spouse, parent, child or grandchild: you can't go to any games this year because some people think it is too big a burden to get vaccinated and wear a mask.
I hope to be able to attend a few games this year but only time will tell. I wish all of you, even those who disagree, a safe and healthy academic year.
Go Gaels!
Tom McNamara '72
I will admit when I hear stories like this I want to do my part more.
Reality is though that I'm sure immunocompromised individuals need to be extra careful no matter where they go and that also would have existed before covid (albeit now on a different level).
I probably have no idea what it may be like for individuals in similar situations as yours.
I guess my point is that pretty much all indoor venues that require proof of vaccination, recommend but do not require masks.
Covid isn't going away anytime soon, or maybe even ever. I guess I'm just trying to figure out where mandates end.. and it's very confusing when I see Smaller venues making their own rules (which I know they have every right to).
It is good to see you here. If you are the person I am thinking of, I often sat with you and your wife at the Reitz Arena to watch the Gaels play Loyola back in the late 1990s through the mid 2000s.
I do not wear masks or frequent places that require them. I make two exceptions for this rule: (1) For people like you who are immune-compromised. When I go to a doctor’s office (which I have been doing far too much recently); a hospital (to which I hope not to return for a good long while); or the infusion center (where I need to get an injection monthly) I wear a mask. My monthly injections render me somewhat immune-compromised and (2) some courts in which I practice require them and I am not in a position to argue with a judge that I will not wear one.
I made a decision early on in this pandemic that I was not going to let it affect my day-to-day life. I never quarantined or missed a day in the office since this whole thing started. I found it strange early on how COVID affected people. In late February 2020 I had mother (in her 80s) and daughter (in her early 50s) as clients. No one wore masks and people were still shaking hands and sitting next to one another. After meeting with the mother and spending a good deal of time with her, she called me a week later and told me that she was going to the hospital to pull the plug on her daughter who was on a ventilator with COVID. The mom never got COVID nor did I (as far as I know). From early 2020 I met with people (mostly doing real estate closings as the courts were closed down) and seldom used a mask – Fauci was saying that masks do not give protection from the virus. I always carried one with me on the off chance that a person would ask me to put one on. If they did, I would. I still do not think that they afford protection, but if it makes someone feel more at ease, so be it. I always felt that if I got COVID I could beat it. I never wanted to test out my theory and, accordingly, got the Pfizer vaccine when it was available to me. Because of my age; comorbidities; and being immune-compromised, I will get the booster in November when I am 8 months post last shot.
I know a lot of people who will not take the vaccination. Some very bright with advanced degrees (including RNs and MDs) who (1) just do not want to take the shot; or (2) have had COVID and believe they have the necessary antibodies (I read a recent article that said that a person who has had COVID and takes one shot would be the most protected person); or (3) some clients who are black and will not take it because they believe it’s similar to the experimental drugs used on Negros at Tuskegee or have bought what biden and Harris said about not getting a “Trump” vaccine. I have urged all of these people to get vaccinated, but the decision is theirs and should not be forced on them.
I can only accept the mask policy for people like you. It shouldn’t apply to vaccinated people because they are vaccinated. It shouldn’t apply to non-vaccinated people inasmuch as they have assumed the risk of contracting COVID by not getting vaccinated. If it is for the players (who I assume are vaccinated) then make the games fan free.
I wish you and yours all the best and pray you stay healthy.
