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Post by hawaii bill on Mar 30, 2019 7:04:18 GMT -5
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Post by hawaii bill on Mar 30, 2019 7:48:12 GMT -5
Have to go to a funeral, but the question re 911, why won't the government release a video of the terrorist boarding the flights, assuming they have such video and it hasn't been released? Here is the difference between you and I, I guess. I would assume it has to do with counter-intelligence or protecting methods, etc. and you will assume it has to do with the government engaging in a conspiracy to kill its own citizens and put the lives of thousands more in danger in order to start a war with Afghanistan. Which is more likely?
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Post by iona05 on Mar 30, 2019 8:35:46 GMT -5
Reksonn all due respect...you sound like a mad man conspiracy theorist who needs professional help.
The only conspiracy you will ever get people on this board to buy into is that Carnesecca conspired to keep Iona out of the Big East.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 13:23:42 GMT -5
How dare you use that cheap tactic on me. What kind of person are you. You set up some crazy straw man theory and imply that that is what I am saying. I'm embarrassed for you Bill for using such a scurrilous tactic. (for readers of the thread???) I have no knowledge of this person Quanon whatsoever. I thought I knew you better than this. You offend me tremendously by equating me with this stuff. If that's what you were trying to do you succeeded.
Imagine this. You are a creationist theorist and you are trying to debunk evolution. So you come up with someone who is saying something like the human race was started by Martians who came in flying saucers and dropped off members of the new human species. And then you say "see how crazy these people who don't believe in creationism are?" But does this have anything to do with Darwinism? No it does not.
That is what you are doing. Now there are hundreds of non-sensical theories about 9/11 out there. (clever tactic to fill the internet with nutty theories; you insulate yourself). This has no bearing on the validity of the government's conspiracy theory whatsoever. How could it? Unfortunately the government's conspiracy theory does not make any sense either. More posts below. As an alternative for "readers of the thread" here is a logical website that debunks the governments conspiracy theory. AE9/11truth. Read it the same as you read your own post. And get back to me about it. Are these people crazy? No they are very accomplished in their fields.
As to your question, "which is more likely", based on all the facts, the government conspiring to get us into war is far more likely. I'll show you why as part of the post below. It is standard practice for governments to do this especially when they want to attack a much smaller and weaker country. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 15:46:20 GMT -5
The difference between you and ME. Firstly, by Federal law, all airports have surveillance cameras on every square inch (excluding bathrooms). So they definitely do "have such video". Secondly, they only "released" video of one accused (Atta) walking through a 9/11 airport but it was in Portland, ME. at 6:30AM. They say it was a connecting flight. You don't have to be a lawyer to see the problem with this. And what about the other eighteen?
Now you've had a year to respond to the dozen or so questions posed (there are literally hundreds and hundreds of serious problems with the governments conspiracy theory. Among many other sites see AE9/11truth; not quanon or whatever). You didn't respond to me; instead you put up some other BS and reacted to that. You're better then that.
You "assume" "it has to do with" "counter-intelligence" or "protecting methods". (sounds like they were using extremely effective methods on that fateful day). This brings intellectual laziness into a new realm. You're backing a government conspiracy theory which was used to spend trillions of dollars to kill a million innocent people, decimate the fourth amendment, and used as justification to torture human beings. And you just say they don't need any evidence of them even being on the flight because you assume it has "something to do" with counter-intelligence, etc.. These are very, very low standards for a country like the U.S. to have in such a gravely serious matter. Imagine telling the guy you're torturing we don't need proof, it has "something to do with counter-intelligence". Imagine a prosecutor saying that to a jury. We have the evidence don't worry. Just what they said about the WMD in Iraq. Don't worry they said; "We know they have them". Well I'm sorry, I'm calling their bluff on the videos and everything else they won't release. (They illegally destroyed almost all of the steel. That has to tell an objective person something. Gee maybe there is a cover-up. No???) This is serious. War is very serious. There must be early baby boomers here who remember Vietnam. It's a serious issue.
Now lets look at the assumption that it has something to do with counter-intelligence. What counter-intelligence? This is really flimsy. What did they have current CIA officers following on their heels the entire way through the four airports? All nineteen of them all the way through the four airports? And they can't release these because these agents identities would then be divulged. (I hope you are not insinuating this) Gee that's pretty tight security for such a monumental intelligence failure. What were these methods that have to be protected? Golly, maybe they had presently active operatives following closely behind all nineteen. Just think they could easily blot out their faces as they so commonly do. Very flimsy. They weren't very effective methods were they? Based on that we could start a war any day of the year.
Now you say I will assume "That the government engaged in a conspiracy theory to kill it's own citizens and start a war that put the lives of thousands more in jeopardy" Bill you are good guy and an intelligent guy. I don't want you to sound like a person who hates reading history. This is what Governments do. All throughout world history and American history. They have always done this from the time of Nero's Rome. "Nero fiddled and Rome burned." All throughout world history and American history.
It was never proven that the U.S. lied about the WMD in Iraq, but why did Bush give Tenet the Presidential medal of freedom after his CIA said there is no doubt they will find the WMD? Was he being rewarded for doing Bush's dirty work? He should have been hauled out on the carpet. We have the dirty dealings to make war in Central America in the 80's. (Iran-Contra). We have the Pentagon papers that prove the U.S. lied all through the Vietnam war to not only keep that war going, but to escalate it. (58,000 dead U.S. servicemen) We have the Gulf of Tonkin lie that initiated the military phase of that conflict. (Even Bob MacNamara says it never happened). As a side note the U.S. does not tell anyone about the U.S.'s own naval blockade of Japan that precipitated the bombing of Pearl Harbor. We lie to our children in school.
It is now an accepted fact that the Lusitania, the attack of which that was used as justification for the U.S. to enter WWI was loaded with munitions headed to England. Thy lied about that and said it was the Germans that were lying. No: our Government and Great Britain's government were lying about that. Think of how incredibly dishonorable that is Bill. Putting munitions on a passenger ship, letting it be struck by torpedoes and then using that as justification for war mongering. How about the USS Main? This was used as justification for the Spanish American war. It was a proven lie.
This is just a small sample of all the examples since time and space do not permit more. I could have gone on all night about examples of government lying to start wars.
Now Bill I am not assuming anything. I don't know what happened. How could I? I am not a conspiracy theorist since I don't claim to know what happened. But you will assume that Government could NOT engage in a conspiracy to start a war and put people's lives in danger. Well the facts don't support this assumption. (If you need more examples let me know, the history of this government behavior is endless). And please don't call a person who does not make this assumption crazy. I't s not ethical to do this. Governments lie about war to start war all the time. It's not a crazy assumption, it's a fact.
I don't want to digress anymore but did you Google Operation Northwoods. These documents are even FOIA requestable. I posted the link in another thread of the same name. Clinton declassified them. The CIA and military approved a plan to hijack airplanes and engage in other terror acts and blame it on Cuba in order to attack them. Kennedy, thank God, killed the plan but unfortunately someone killed him a little later. He would have been a very good President at a very difficult time in our nation's history.
Bill, I feel like I've gotten to know you on line a little bit over the years. Unless my perception is very wrong you're a good guy. Maybe not as good of a guy as you used to be but still a good guy. LOL.
It 's not uncommon for people to get personal when discussing emotional topics especially when they involve war and death. But please no more personal attacks and saying people are crazy. Just the issues at hand. Why did they confiscate the 85 video cameras from the neighborhoods around the Pentagon? Why can't we see those planes hitting the building in D.C.? Why can't they show the signed boarding passes of the accused who supposedly boarded their flights? And why can't we see the flight manifests listing the passengers. There are literally hundreds of very serious problems with the governments conspiracy theory that raise very serious questions. Lets try to stick to these questions only instead of attacking the people asking them.
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Post by hawaii bill on Mar 30, 2019 19:20:56 GMT -5
How dare you use that cheap tactic on me. What kind of person are you. You set up some crazy straw man theory and imply that that is what I am saying. I'm embarrassed for you Bill for using such a scurrilous tactic. (for readers of the thread???) I have no knowledge of this person Quanon whatsoever. I thought I knew you better than this. You offend me tremendously by equating me with this stuff. If that's what you were trying to do you succeeded.
Imagine this. You are a creationist theorist and you are trying to debunk evolution. So you come up with someone who is saying something like the human race was started by Martians who came in flying saucers and dropped off members of the new human species. And then you say "see how crazy these people who don't believe in creationism are?" But does this have anything to do with Darwinism? No it does not.
That is what you are doing. Now there are hundreds of non-sensical theories about 9/11 out there. (clever tactic to fill the internet with nutty theories; you insulate yourself). This has no bearing on the validity of the government's conspiracy theory whatsoever. How could it? Unfortunately the government's conspiracy theory does not make any sense either. More posts below. As an alternative for "readers of the thread" here is a logical website that debunks the governments conspiracy theory. AE9/11truth. Read it the same as you read your own post. And get back to me about it. Are these people crazy? No they are very accomplished in their fields.
As to your question, "which is more likely", based on all the facts, the government conspiring to get us into war is far more likely. I'll show you why as part of the post below. It is standard practice for governments to do this especially when they want to attack a much smaller and weaker country. No I posted the Q thing for others. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 20:58:49 GMT -5
Possibly people IM'ing you? I got the scoop on that now. It appears a while ago there was reliable stuff being put out there on that site. But it now appears they are discrediting themselves. Why , I don't know. It sure would be clever to draw people in and then discredit yourself so people who initially followed and quoted you now look ridiculous.
Here are the first two sites you should study. The aforementioned AE9/11truth, and 9/11research.org. Just study those sites. And please don't wear your lawyer cap. Don't make like you are representing the Gov's side in court. Wear an impartial judges cap. I initially thought that these truth movement people were crazy too. But someone convinced me to sit down and study the issue and after a couple of days I realized the governments conspiracy theory could not be true in a million years. And there is mountains and mountains of evidence for this. The first casualty of war is the truth. That is not just a cliché. It is in this case the reality.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 0:00:35 GMT -5
I just looked again at that Quanon thing you posted. It is pretty clever and then they associate it with the 9/11 truth movement at the end. This appears like it could be one of those things that is designed to discredit the movement. I must say it works pretty well. The average person does not know where to turn for accurate information about the government's 9/11 conspiracy theory. So when they see something like that they will naturally think that ALL conspiracy theories which differ from the gov's are nuts also. The biblical creationists could have done this to Charles Darwin. It wouldn't discredit evolutionary theory in the slightest if you want to be rational.
I'll post these sites again. AE9/11truth. And 9/11research.org. If you read that quanon junk then in fairness you have to read the sites set up by professionals, top academics, which include national academy of sciences winners, Nobel laureates, Professor emeriti, and thousands of professional engineers and architects who have studied this problem thoroughly and have concluded that there is no doubt that the government's conspiracy theory could not be true. It also includes former politicians, even a former President, a former governor with a masters degree in Public policy from Harvard, A former 9/11 commission member who quit the commission saying it was a joke since they didn't even have subpoena power.(what good would a commission be if they did not even have subpoena power. What would be the point). Again these sites are AE9/11truth. And 9/11research.org.
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Post by St. Louis Gael on Mar 31, 2019 11:50:15 GMT -5
I have no idea what this quanon stuff is about. But the government's conspiracy theory is itself crazy. But people that lack a knowledge of history do not realize that Governments routinely make up stories to involve their people in wars. It's a standard practice. Hard to find a war that has started in the last 150 years that wasn't caused, continued, or escalated by government lies and omissions. Pick up a book Bill and stop sending articles that have nothing to do with explaining YOUR conspiracy theory that makes no sense. See, it's the people who believe the conspiracy theory who are the conspiracy theorists, not the people who don't believe it. Surely logic is not that foreign to you; is it? But you have made no attempt to answer even one of the many simple questions posed about YOUR conspiracy theory. Start with the first question. Why won't they release the videos of the accused boarding the flights. Surely you could take a stab at that one. Did it ever occur to you (an attorney) that the reason you can't answer is because your conspiracy theory makes no sense. You will never answer any of these questions. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T. More later. I'll post articles about the profiles of people who are afraid to challenge government conspiracy theories no matter how dumb they are even though governments, government officials, and politicians lie to us regularly. When the Clintons are caught lying what do they say? . . . All politicians lie. Everyone lies. Same with Trump. Of course. You'd be crazy to believe what these people say. This guy needs Joebirds meds. Or . . . 
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 13:02:21 GMT -5
Reksonn all due respect...you sound like a mad man conspiracy theorist who needs professional help. The only conspiracy you will ever get people on this board to buy into is that Carnesecca conspired to keep Iona out of the Big East. Do you realize how unethical that is to call someone crazy while steadfastly refusing to address their questions about a serious issue. To say the American government would never do anything like that is a pre-conceived notion of yours. And it has everything to do with you being American yourself. Governments have always behaved this way since the dawn of the modern era. (after c. 1500AD). Read up, for example on Machiavelli. He correctly diagnosed the thought processes of 16th century European governments and is regarded as one of the great political philosophers of all time. In "The Prince" he disregarded the question of what Gov. ought to do and focused only on what they actually did. The successful rulers he said were not concerned with right and wrong, but with what was effective. The so called new monarchs. And he was absolutely right. The rulers of the time who gave precedence to morality in politics were falling by the wayside.
In the 19th century in Germany, as another well known example, this same concept was called realpolitik. You can read how Metternich, Bismarck, and the Kaisers concerned themselves primarily with the advancement of the concept of a new state called Deutschland. It's not that these Germans did not care about morality, it's just that they regarded it as a secondary concern to strength of the state.
Now one might say you are talking about other countries, but this is America. That is a bias and is not an objective approach . Or this is the 21st Century and countries don't lie anymore. That Governments and their officials have suddenly had an attack of scrupulosity just because it is now the 21st Century, would be another pre-conceived notion.
One can read about the U.S. government program called MK-Ultra. Google it. You can read about Operation Northwoods which was approved by both the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of staff Lyman Lemnitzer. Fortunately JFK rejected the plan and transferred Lemnitzer out to Europe. I will try to provide links later on as time is getting more and more scarce and I want to get to the games. Maybe try to make time to research these topics a little later. Anyway enjoy the games.
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Post by iona05 on Mar 31, 2019 13:18:07 GMT -5
Reksonn, I didn’t say you were crazy.
I said you sound like you are absolutely off your rocker.
And you do.
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Post by iona1970 on Mar 31, 2019 13:43:24 GMT -5
Coo coo for cocoa puffs
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Post by iona81 on Mar 31, 2019 14:00:23 GMT -5
Medications are available!! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 23:49:58 GMT -5
Reksonn, I didn’t say you were crazy. I said you sound like you are absolutely off your rocker. And you do. Specifically, what is it in the above two or three posts that sounds that way and why? Tell me and explain why. Help me out. Be specific, don't just say everything. Or pick one or two things and explain. Can you do that? People far smarter then you and me have written books about this including PhD's, Nobel laureates, National Academy of Sciences winners, Professor Emeriti of Physics, etc.. Maybe you should read their books or watch their lectures and tell me why they too are crazy. Don't be afraid to do that. |
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Post by IONA86 on Apr 3, 2019 0:58:10 GMT -5
If you do not believe that your government is capable of false flag operations, just research Operation Northwoods.
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