Just awful, awful basketball. What has been the game plan for two whole games? Didn't have a strategy at all? If we did, we didn't even come close to sniffing it. What plays are we running? The team looks lost and disinterested. No one seems angry at all, other than Washington. Just an embarrassing start. If this is how we are going to show up, stop scheduling like this. Play some struggling local - what's the point of getting destroyed and looking disorganized?
we are still a one trick pony, be more talented and run teams into submission, or play a more athletic team or a well coached team and lose.
To answer Chels question, I still feel good. I like what I see from the new guys in terms of ability. There are no stiffs among the new guys. I stated last week I'm not buying into the pre-season hype. Having said that we opened on the road against two very good teams while integrating five new guys. We haven't played Brown or Lehigh. We played two potential top 50 teams ON THE ROAD. Its hard to beat average teams on the road in college basketball. Hopefully we left last night, got home this morning will get some rest and have a good practice tomorrow to get prepared for Friday. I think getting home will stabilize this team and I expect the veterans will lead us on Friday night. I think their pride will kick in. As for the approach so far, I'm loving that a lot of guys have seen the floor. In the past under Cluess we might have won one or both of these games playing six guys who by the time March rolls around are zombies. Again, if we look like this on January 2nd I'll be deeply worried, but not now. And I think its good that we can put the at-large talk behind us.
In Cluess's first year we played a tournament in Cleveland where we went 0-3 and lost to Bryant. We put that start in a box and threw it out the window came home and beat Richmond and went on to have a really good year and made it to the MAAC final. For me this is a pre-season tournament. I liken it to an exhibition. We're seeing what guys can do. Yes we tried to win but I don't really care that we didn't. I want us to win in March. If you look at the 1998 team that came within 2 seconds of beating Syracuse in the NCAA tournament, I'm guessing you'll see a blow out loss early in November/December. All the new guys can play. Sed, AJ, and IW can play. We need to put the build the team in the OOC for the purpose of winning the MAAC. Obviously I'd rather that we won both games, but its more important to build the team.
I understand what you are saying. And to me it is a great way to say "we are not a top 100 team", but we can win the MAAC tourney because of the lessons we learned in getting the crap beat out of us by 2 good teams. And I understand it is hard to win on the road. We didn't lose, we got annihilated. The other issue is that the newcomer bigs (Washington, Bessick and Roundtree) were so hyped that your comments about stiffs I don't really get. I86 definitely has my total respect. A couple of weeks ago he posted after I had a concern,
"I told everyone about the impact of Glover, Laury and IW before they ever played here... I think Washington will be considered in the same breath as those folks when it is all said and done."
What concerns me most is that the present state of play is not primarily due to the difficulty of integrating new players and the loss of DL. Both are factors, but the real problem appears to be that the "book" on how to shut down Iona is now becoming a best seller, and the teams with talent and good coaching (Manhattan, URI, Valpo and OSU, to name our last 4 opponents), are capable of implementing that book.
The team looks disorganized and unprepared because that is exactly the case. We need some coaching adjustments.
That is why we need to learn to push the ball down low to Washington when they are playing us tight on the perimeter. Instead we try to drive to the hop or take an NBA range three. If you get the ball down low for a few points it will cause the D to fall back. This is not rocket science.
Completely agree. The question is whether Cluess will adapt.
This is why I told you guys to focus on winning the tournament and stop the "at large" talk.
There are many concerns but these are the biggest issues (IMHO) from observing the first two games:
1) Ibn is the only real leader right now. 2) The staff has done nothing to integrate our bigs into the offensive scheme. 3) Cas looks scared to shoot. He needs to shoot and shoot often. 4) Much has potential.. better than I initially thought but he sometimes tries to do to much. If other players actually moved around he might not be forced to push too much. 5) When Washington sets a pick for AJ, AJ needs to look for Robinson. It appears that nobody has explained the pick and roll to AJ... time for an introduction. 6) Chemistry is way off. 7) Coach said the team likes to share the ball... he needs to tell them to stop sharing the ball with the other team. How many lazy passes and broken drives to the hoop we see? 8) Playing two bigs at the same time might provide some different results down low. 9) I like Proctor. 10) Our offensive plan has got to be greater in scope than AJ doing what he wants.
With this said it is early. The guards and staff need to learn how to utilize bigs. The refs are also trying to enforce the new rules early to get players to adapt. So we are seeing some calls that won't be called in MAAC play. The staff needs to adapt though as having everyone spread on offense and then charging in for rebounds will create a lot of "over the back" calls against us. Lets see what corrections we see over the next couple of games. As long as we are utilizing our bigs and the offensive flow is humming by the start of conference play we are in good shape.
#5 and #9 are what I got out of the game. Washington's role needs to be better defined on the offensive end, but he plays like a man on the court. He was one of the few that actually looked mad on the court. He is going to kill it in MAAC games. Was pleasantly surprised to see Proctor get minutes in both games. Looks like a big kid. Felt he played under control, made some nice plays, and can tell he is going to make a lot of 3 point shots. Really liked what I saw in the limited minutes the first 2 games. Hope TC sticks with him in the playing rotation
Post by hawaii bill on Nov 18, 2015 9:31:07 GMT -5
Look one of the comments that keeps coming up is that Sed seems tentative. Last night while I was listening to the game I heard a play where on a break he passed up a pull up jumper and passed it to Bessick, who lost it out of bounds. Bessick is rusty, imo, having not played in real games in a year. And he's probably pressing too. Sed's been asked to distribute more and look for his shot less. Cluess stated that very thing in the Blue Ribbon quotes. Unless Cluess was just rambling to hear himself talk, he wants Sed to be more of a distributor. So when he tries to implement that in the game, we have guys saying he looks tentative and less confident. I think it helps that I have a son who's a pretty good athlete and I've supported him since he was little playing sports. I've seen him be very aggressive and even dominating at certain positions, get moved to a new position, and see him struggle at first until he transitions. During games I could actually see him trying to think his way through, instead of just playing. That's part of a transition to being a different kind of player. What Sed did last night actually takes a lot of confidence. It takes a pretty secure guy who is willing to make himself uncomfortable during a game in order to try to help his team win. Sed has been charged by Cluess to be a different player than he was last year and I'm impressed that he's trying to do just that. This is a guy who has overcome physical limitations since he was a kid to get himself to the highest level of college basketball. He strikes me as a smart young man who's not afraid of a challenge, who will work to make himself better, and who will try to help the team in any way he can. This is one guy I ain't worried about.
To answer Chels question, I still feel good. I like what I see from the new guys in terms of ability. There are no stiffs among the new guys. I stated last week I'm not buying into the pre-season hype. Having said that we opened on the road against two very good teams while integrating five new guys. We haven't played Brown or Lehigh. We played two potential top 50 teams ON THE ROAD. Its hard to beat average teams on the road in college basketball. Hopefully we left last night, got home this morning will get some rest and have a good practice tomorrow to get prepared for Friday. I think getting home will stabilize this team and I expect the veterans will lead us on Friday night. I think their pride will kick in. As for the approach so far, I'm loving that a lot of guys have seen the floor. In the past under Cluess we might have won one or both of these games playing six guys who by the time March rolls around are zombies. Again, if we look like this on January 2nd I'll be deeply worried, but not now. And I think its good that we can put the at-large talk behind us.
In Cluess's first year we played a tournament in Cleveland where we went 0-3 and lost to Bryant. We put that start in a box and threw it out the window came home and beat Richmond and went on to have a really good year and made it to the MAAC final. For me this is a pre-season tournament. I liken it to an exhibition. We're seeing what guys can do. Yes we tried to win but I don't really care that we didn't. I want us to win in March. If you look at the 1998 team that came within 2 seconds of beating Syracuse in the NCAA tournament, I'm guessing you'll see a blow out loss early in November/December. All the new guys can play. Sed, AJ, and IW can play. We need to put the build the team in the OOC for the purpose of winning the MAAC. Obviously I'd rather that we won both games, but its more important to build the team.
I understand what you are saying. And to me it is a great way to say "we are not a top 100 team", but we can win the MAAC tourney because of the lessons we learned in getting the crap beat out of us by 2 good teams. And I understand it is hard to win on the road. We didn't lose, we got annihilated. The other issue is that the newcomer bigs (Washington, Bessick and Roundtree) were so hyped that your comments about stiffs I don't really get. I86 definitely has my total respect. A couple of weeks ago he posted after I had a concern,
"I told everyone about the impact of Glover, Laury and IW before they ever played here... I think Washington will be considered in the same breath as those folks when it is all said and done."
Still feel that way?
Here's my take on the new guys, again as if anyone gives a crap.
Rountree - I'm impressed so far. I think he's going to be a really good leader. Can block shots and defend. Washington - has all the tools to be a very good player for us. He's adjusting to a new team and D-1. I think he's going to be great. Much - very talented scorer. Bessick - solid big for us. Looks a bit rusty. Proctor - seems to be ahead of schedule as a frosh. McGill - haven't really seen him.
Last Edit: Nov 18, 2015 9:39:05 GMT -5 by hawaii bill
Post by hawaii bill on Nov 18, 2015 9:46:33 GMT -5
We're all panicking now because we're not used to seeing Cluess teams get blown out. Usually when we lose its a fairly close game and we all complain that we can't win close games. Whether we lose by 2 or 20 its still a loss. It doesn't matter for purposes of standings or RPI. Maybe our egos get bruised. Maybe we were sold a lot of hype, although I still believe this team can win a MAAC title and a game in the NCAA's. The pieces are there. Its up to Cluess and staff to put them together. And its up to the players to buy in. One thing I hope we learned is that we have to play as a team to win. Individual talent alone doesn't mean diddly. If we don't learn to play as a cohesive team we'll lose and sometimes it'll be ugly. No delusions of grandeur for this team. No early wins against Maryland that swell our heads to the point that guys aren't interested in playing in MAAC games. Either we become a cohesive team or we go nowhere.
Last Edit: Nov 18, 2015 9:49:08 GMT -5 by hawaii bill
This is why I told you guys to focus on winning the tournament and stop the "at large" talk.
There are many concerns but these are the biggest issues (IMHO) from observing the first two games:
1) Ibn is the only real leader right now. 2) The staff has done nothing to integrate our bigs into the offensive scheme. 3) Cas looks scared to shoot. He needs to shoot and shoot often. 4) Much has potential.. better than I initially thought but he sometimes tries to do to much. If other players actually moved around he might not be forced to push too much. 5) When Washington sets a pick for AJ, AJ needs to look for Robinson. It appears that nobody has explained the pick and roll to AJ... time for an introduction. 6) Chemistry is way off. 7) Coach said the team likes to share the ball... he needs to tell them to stop sharing the ball with the other team. How many lazy passes and broken drives to the hoop we see? 8) Playing two bigs at the same time might provide some different results down low. 9) I like Proctor. 10) Our offensive plan has got to be greater in scope than AJ doing what he wants.
With this said it is early. The guards and staff need to learn how to utilize bigs. The refs are also trying to enforce the new rules early to get players to adapt. So we are seeing some calls that won't be called in MAAC play. The staff needs to adapt though as having everyone spread on offense and then charging in for rebounds will create a lot of "over the back" calls against us. Lets see what corrections we see over the next couple of games. As long as we are utilizing our bigs and the offensive flow is humming by the start of conference play we are in good shape.
Think you may have solved the mystery with your point #5. They are all looking for Robinson and he's no where to be found. Maybe when we play Monmouth.
I understand what you are saying. And to me it is a great way to say "we are not a top 100 team", but we can win the MAAC tourney because of the lessons we learned in getting the crap beat out of us by 2 good teams. And I understand it is hard to win on the road. We didn't lose, we got annihilated. The other issue is that the newcomer bigs (Washington, Bessick and Roundtree) were so hyped that your comments about stiffs I don't really get. I86 definitely has my total respect. A couple of weeks ago he posted after I had a concern,
"I told everyone about the impact of Glover, Laury and IW before they ever played here... I think Washington will be considered in the same breath as those folks when it is all said and done."
Still feel that way?
Here's my take on the new guys, again as if anyone gives a crap.
Rountree - I'm impressed so far. I think he's going to be a really good leader. Can block shots and defend. Washington - has all the tools to be a very good player for us. He's adjusting to a new team and D-1. I think he's going to be great. Much - very talented scorer. Bessick - solid big for us. Looks a bit rusty. Proctor - seems to be ahead of schedule as a frosh. McGill - haven't really seen him.
Kids on 1st flight out of Eugene after 3:00 AM wake up. Grueling travel week.
Bill, totally agree with assessment of new players. Proctor is the 17 year old son of a PA high school coach. Very serious, confident kid.
Post by chelseadal on Nov 18, 2015 11:00:44 GMT -5
Proctor definitely plays like an upper classman. Bill's take may be correct. It is the most optimistic view that you could possibly have, but it may be correct.
This is why I told you guys to focus on winning the tournament and stop the "at large" talk.
There are many concerns but these are the biggest issues (IMHO) from observing the first two games:
1) Ibn is the only real leader right now. 2) The staff has done nothing to integrate our bigs into the offensive scheme. 3) Cas looks scared to shoot. He needs to shoot and shoot often. 4) Much has potential.. better than I initially thought but he sometimes tries to do to much. If other players actually moved around he might not be forced to push too much. 5) When Washington sets a pick for AJ, AJ needs to look for Robinson. It appears that nobody has explained the pick and roll to AJ... time for an introduction. 6) Chemistry is way off. 7) Coach said the team likes to share the ball... he needs to tell them to stop sharing the ball with the other team. How many lazy passes and broken drives to the hoop we see? 8) Playing two bigs at the same time might provide some different results down low. 9) I like Proctor. 10) Our offensive plan has got to be greater in scope than AJ doing what he wants.
With this said it is early. The guards and staff need to learn how to utilize bigs. The refs are also trying to enforce the new rules early to get players to adapt. So we are seeing some calls that won't be called in MAAC play. The staff needs to adapt though as having everyone spread on offense and then charging in for rebounds will create a lot of "over the back" calls against us. Lets see what corrections we see over the next couple of games. As long as we are utilizing our bigs and the offensive flow is humming by the start of conference play we are in good shape.
Think you may have solved the mystery with your point #5. They are all looking for Robinson and he's no where to be found. Maybe when we play Monmouth.
LOL... that is what I get for typing an email, just before making my post, about an electrical electrical plant appraiser named Robinson... who is also MIA.
We're all panicking now because we're not used to seeing Cluess teams get blown out. Usually when we lose its a fairly close game and we all complain that we can't win close games. Whether we lose by 2 or 20 its still a loss. It doesn't matter for purposes of standings or RPI. Maybe our egos get bruised. Maybe we were sold a lot of hype, although I still believe this team can win a MAAC title and a game in the NCAA's. The pieces are there. Its up to Cluess and staff to put them together. And its up to the players to buy in. One thing I hope we learned is that we have to play as a team to win. Individual talent alone doesn't mean diddly. If we don't learn to play as a cohesive team we'll lose and sometimes it'll be ugly. No delusions of grandeur for this team. No early wins against Maryland that swell our heads to the point that guys aren't interested in playing in MAAC games. Either we become a cohesive team or we go nowhere.
Not panicking, but I think many of you are rationalizing away the poor performances. In the end, you all may be correct, but you cannot tell me that anything you saw in those two games was the least bit encouraging. Washington may be a beast, but he played poorly. Rountree had moments, but showed no consistency, and on and on. They may all end up as great as hyped, but nothing from those two games would predict that. My most optimistic prediction would be this could go either way. I hope it all turns around and is positive, but I'm certainly not convinced that will happen.
Last Edit: Nov 18, 2015 11:49:15 GMT -5 by gregcrow
We're all panicking now because we're not used to seeing Cluess teams get blown out. Usually when we lose its a fairly close game and we all complain that we can't win close games. Whether we lose by 2 or 20 its still a loss. It doesn't matter for purposes of standings or RPI. Maybe our egos get bruised. Maybe we were sold a lot of hype, although I still believe this team can win a MAAC title and a game in the NCAA's. The pieces are there. Its up to Cluess and staff to put them together. And its up to the players to buy in. One thing I hope we learned is that we have to play as a team to win. Individual talent alone doesn't mean diddly. If we don't learn to play as a cohesive team we'll lose and sometimes it'll be ugly. No delusions of grandeur for this team. No early wins against Maryland that swell our heads to the point that guys aren't interested in playing in MAAC games. Either we become a cohesive team or we go nowhere.
Not panicking, but I think many of you are rationalizing away the poor performances. In the end, you all may be correct, but you cannot tell me that anything you saw in those two games was the least bit encouraging. Washington may be a beast, but he played poorly. Rountree had moments, but showed no consistency, and on and on. They may all end up as great as hyped, but nothing from those two games would predict that. My most optimistic prediction would be this could go either way. I hope it all turns around and is positive, but I'm certainly not convinced that will happen.
That is exactly right. We all hope it turns around. But use all the excuses you want, they look like shit right now. I am sure the coaches and the team would agree.